State your ideas

[Charlie_051181]

My very beloved teacher has ever asked me " You live to work or work to live " . If you were me , how would you answer him ? Sharky , CIQ and many others , please help me give out a perfect decision then we will be able to understand what we work for : Money , power , prestage and so on .

[ICQ]

I live to work.
It may be unbelievable for you to hear my answer, but I'm serious. I wander if anyone can suggest any reason for my way of thinking?

[Sharky]

I choose both: I live to work and I work to live.

I LIVE TO WORK

Without work, I think I still could live. But without any thing to do, to keep me busy, I am not myself any more. And sooner or later, I would die!!! This is a serious answer, believe it or not! :). It's simply because I am a person of work, and working gives me more inspiration to live. I really enjoy the feeling of being exhausted trying to do some thing, and succeed! At that time, I feel I am rewarded for my efforts, and feel proud of myself, too :)!

Two of my phylosophies, I can tell you, are that: "Life is beautiful because we have lots of things to do" and another similar: "I am happy because I am busy". That's it!

I WORK TO LIVE

The reason for it is also simple: I want to live on my own, I don't want to rely on my parents and others too much. Of course, we can do nothing if we even can't feed ourselves.

Also, if we live in a good condition, we can work more effective. If we work hard, we can live better. I call it interdependence.

[Dartagnan]

I choose both too. And I think it's not a strange answer. Many others will agree with me.

Without work, it's not living, but just existing. The problem is how do U identify the purposes, the ideals of you life. After that, U've to try to work, to realize your dreams. What do I work and try for? For myself, for the very one of mine, for my ideal, for what I want to become reality... And as Sharky said, I'd feel happy and proud when something's successfully done by myself.

[BILLNHUNG]

Personally, I live to work for my life , and work to be lived in my own work.
My answer seems to be pretty complex, but I sympathize that it's the very my view. Living to work for life means having to Live as a real human being ,what 's a human being ?- Working and so ! BG said " Why don't I relax instead of working ev'ry day? The simple answer is I'm having a good stand , I live to do work and do work for ...my wife. ";) ; Working to be lived in my own work means if I'm a person of work , there's no reason why I can't reach to my aim by working . Working gives me the pleasure ,it appears to be unreasonable, but that's true. Have any more interesting and beautiful thing than living in the life that U want , working the things that U love ?

[Charlie_051181]

Well , I personally think your options are realistic and fair . No one can be without having to work and no work can be done without purpose of serving man . When we live without working , of couse you will be a good for nothing person , and just viewing life with dark sides . So why do we have to work ? And what do we work for ?
My answer is " I work to live " . Think of our Vietnamese people , over 80% of them are living to work . Their lives are full of thinkings of how they can get a warm day tomorrow and

[Charlie_051181]

(Please let me go on )
And they just work and work and work . For rural lives , they do not know any concept of how to travel at all even enterainment and relax , I can even say they do not know where is Ha Long and Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City . Hence can we regard them as ones who live to work ? I do not know whether I can be the one who work to live or not , anyway it can be my option . Ok , I will let you know more what I think of it later with small hope of receiving your suggestions .

[kitty]

We should live to work, for ourselves and for the existence of the human beings. Work here means contribution. We need work to live, not just because of its results but also as the oxygen we needs everyday.


Live and work makes up the true meaning of life, especially live and work for others other than yourself.

[Charlie_051181]

Originally posted by kitty@Apr 26 2003, 06:31 PM
We should live to work, for ourselves and for the existence of the human beings. Work here means contribution. We need work to live, not just because of its results but also as the oxygen we needs everyday.


Live and work makes up the true meaning of life, especially live and work for others other than yourself.
Great , Kitty thank you very much for coming and joining us . I really apreciate your English ability because of its being persuadable .Yes , it is ! We all clearly know labor is glorious and no one can live without it , anyway reasons that we work for depend on our own needs and wants . Working means we act to be good persons , positive members of the society in order to gain the great respectation and prosocial things . Then , one matter can be put out , so many really rich people do be unhappy , they just know how to work without being aware of how to buit happiness and keep it . When their full money lies down in the middle of sadness and regretfulness , what they should think and how to be then .
Anyway , live and work are two fields that are inextricable , sticking together and needing explored in more details .

[kitty]

Originally posted by Charlie_051181@Apr 28 2003, 10:09 AM
Great , Kitty thank you very much for coming and joining us . I really apreciate your English ability because of its being persuadable .Yes , it is ! We all clearly know labor is glorious and no one can live without it , anyway reasons that we work for depend on our own needs and wants . Working means we act to be good persons , positive members of the society in order to gain the great respectation and prosocial things . Then , one matter can be put out , so many really rich people do be unhappy , they just know how to work without being aware of how to buit happiness and keep it . When their full money lies down in the middle of sadness and regretfulness , what they should think and how to be then .
Anyway , live and work are two fields that are inextricable , sticking together and needing explored in more details .
I am very ashamed of the so-called 'English ability' you have used to compliment me. However, I am absolutely delighted and even proud that you and all other students of Eghlish classes have made a big progress compared to us few years ago.

[Charlie_051181]

Well , How can I say ? Er...erm ...well , the first time I saw your words , the ways of stating feelings and even your syntaxes , I really thought it could be typical of so many others . The happiest thing I just wanna say is that our box ( English one I mean) is really ongoing and on the way of running to very much more great things due to your attendance . Everyone and I will expect lots of things from you , in a more particular way , your being here of couse will enrich and make it more and more exciting . Great ideas just can be given out when they are under the nice and fair cussion , and I still hope WORK and LIVE will be clarified with an eye to understanding and viewing them fairly .
Could you please next time tell us something about yourself such as : Major of study , Studying environment and so on .
Well , come on everyone !

[kitty]

Originally posted by Charlie_051181@Apr 29 2003, 09:02 AM
Could you please next time tell us something about yourself such as : Major of study , Studying environment and so on .
Well , come on everyone !
To Charlie_051181: I am an accountant and working for an accountancy firm specialised in the entertainment industry.

[Charlie_051181]

Originally posted by kitty@Apr 29 2003, 08:04 PM
To Charlie_051181: I am an accountant and working for an accountancy firm specialised in the entertainment industry.
To : Kitty
Thank you so much for your little bit selfclosing . Well , as I know you are the senior of a former Lamson generation specialised in English , and it can be seen right now via your English using way . Are you now in Vietnam or abroad ?
Knowing that working environment will give us so many things such as improving English and social skills but so far I have not successfully imagined how I will do it . As the saying goes , welldone is very much better than wellsaid and it cannot be wrong . Living age can bring us many unseen benifit that helps us approach or avoid what we want and what we do not .
Does your working environment force you to speak English or just Vietnamese . If it does , what difficulties do you often have and your sollutions ?
Ok , please keep coming and cussing more and more .

[kitty]

Charlie,

I apologise for being so brief in my earlier writting. You are right, I was one of Mr. Ngat's students during the period 91-95. I am currently working for an accountancy firm in London and I have been with this company for nearly 3 years. Therefore, I have no options but to use English at work. When I first started, I was very reserved and certainly, my major problem is handling various clients' queries over telephone. I was working in the department of business management among a team of 5, dealing with the business affairs of some music stars.My work mates are very caring and friendly. My line manager is a young, clever bloke with a great sense of humour. Upon recognising my weakness, he would like to see me improving at once by assigning me with all telephone queries of the department. I must admit that my 'customer service' skill is much better since then. I moved to the department of Tax management after 2 years and immediately faced to a new problem which is writting skill. I have become much busier dealing with a complicating and tactical side of business-Tax. My new manager is an experienced expert in Tax. He is very open but very strict. I can never joke to him like I used to the other guy who we could ask for a cup of tea every morning and make fun of until his face went red. The problem of not using your own language does drive me mad sometimes, for example when someone leaves a message on your voicemail saying' Hi, this is Scraggs speaking, from....'. Charlie, I have been so embarrassed failing to recognise that lady's name. However, few of my colleagues could, either.

There are a lot of advantages living and working abroad. In such a situation, you are left with no alternatives but to see where they are lying and how to sort them out. It is very difficult to summarise them in a short period of time and so, I hope to cuss about this sometime later if you are still interested.

Thanks for your warm welcome.

[ICQ]

Welcome you back and welcome you all to this box and this forum, I'm an old guess of this English box and my first purpose when I attend this box is learning English through writing and exchanging idea with all of you. I'm so happy that I can meet many of you, who are so excelent in English.

I studied English in my school and University, but I don't thinh I can use my English for anything except searching for information in the internet :( , I can't speak, listen of write very well. Wish you will help to check and correct mistakes for me.

Welcome and hope you will stay with us for long. Now, let give your idea about this cussing topic "you live to work, or you work to live?"

[Charlie_051181]

Originally posted by kitty@May 8 2003, 02:28 AM
Charlie,

I am currently working for an accountancy firm in London and I have been with this company for nearly 3 years. Therefore, I have no options but to use English at work.
Kitty ,
You know the first time I saw your ways of stating I did think that it could be something excellent which I would be able to learn from . You have done a very good job that thousands of others are dreaming about day and night .
Ok , I will tell you more later with the hope of being able to hear from you as something you have done

[kitty]

Oh no Charlie, anyone in the same situation as mine can do much better than what I have done. I just want to share with you and all of our other beloved friends what I have experienced if it could be a little help. In my opinions, no one could avoid challenges living anywhere in this world. Everyone has slightly equal opportunities but only some are able to seize them. That is why I believe really little in luck. If you are not prepared yourself well enough, there is high possibility that you would miss your chances when they come or you even harldy realise that they have gone by. Turning to the problem of using English, I know that the more I learn, the more I realise how big the gap between people here and myself is. However, the important point is that could never courage me from trying to learn more and more. That is, I think, the most crucial factor, Charlie. People will not look down on you just because of your language . If your contribution to the company or even the community is at the same level as others or even higher, then you will be fine.

Living to work or working to live will never be a question to those who always have a clear direction for their lives and are responsible to what they are doing, why they are doing so.

I just want to cuss a bit about what Nguyen Thao said in her writting regarding English. We should start with speaking clearly even slowly before speaking faster. That helps us, those who use English as a second language, from making mistakes and confusing others. The problem in teaching English is the question of studying and practising. As far as I know, 5 of 10 best students in my class have become teachers, and two are working for Hanoi University of Foreign Language Teacher Training ( or smth like that). If they have additonal lectures provided by the native English speaking people to train them in Speaking and Listening, the situation would be much better.

[Charlie_051181]

Kitty , as the saying goes " Great men seem to be always humble " . I do not aim at anything but I must confess what you are having and doing is typical of so many others . I have been studying in Bangkok specialising in Marketing , one year has already gone but what needs me to get to know about market is to moh . They often say , one more step we go , very much more new things we can see and learn espcially knowing how important English to current life is . Working and living in London certainly bring you billions of value , not only English skills .
I have just flown back from Vietnam for some minutes and still now eveything in Vietnam does implant deeply in my mind in the comparation with ones in Thailand .

You are right to say If you are not prepared yourself well enough, there is high possibility that you would miss your chances when they come or you even harldy realise that they have gone by , anyway knowing and doing have a very big gap which is not easy at all to run by .

[lazycat]

To Kitty: I seem to know you so well coz I was in the same boat with you, Mr. Ngat's class of 37 birds and butterflies (I'm sorry for using these two cute words but they were so common among us, including him!) And, it's a nice co-incidence that we chose the same pet for our nicks. If you don't mind, please tell me your name. (I wonder whether you are An) - A message from Do Huyen ;)

To Nguyen Thao and Charlie:

I think talking about biases in our education system may be costly in terms of time and paper. But, true as it is, teachers of English are lacking sufficient proficiency. However, there are a number of reasons to explain why many good students with high English proficiency from Teachers Training College don't want to stay in the education industry. They may include low salary, boring teaching climate, few chances of getting promoted, poor managegement and the lack of democracy. Here arises the matter of "live to work or work to live" that Charlie raised hereinbefore.

Live and work are the two sides of one issue: human! When man don't have enough food to eat, he would think "I must work to earn my living" and then he'd rather choose to work for a company where he can make a bigger sum, say USD200, than being a teacher, even a high profile professor who just heads on teaching at university and earns USD70. (You can estimate how much you expend on your living a month, can't you?)

On the contrary, for those who have some interests in teaching, they may consider their job enjoyable and nothing is more important to them than living and contributing something for education in particular and for the society in general.

But, as a matter of fact, just a few people can live to work because the Vietnamese's living standard in general remains low. That partly explains why good students of English don't pursue the job of teaching.

I myself was a teacher of English at Foreign Trade Uni and I decided to quit the job because I want both to work to live and to live to work. You may think I'm a bit confused and complicated but after reading this, you may understand me. I have to live on my own in the capital of Hanoi, an expensive place in comparison with our hometown. With a monthly salary of VND600, I could have only fed my self, leaving my brother and sister to be starved :D if I did not work for other organisations at the same time. That's why I've changed to a place where I can earn better while working not as hard. That's the matter of working to live. Regarding the second idea of living to work, due to the poor management of the faculty and the lack of democracy at the uni, working there is really a aster for those who have radical approaches in teaching. I don't want to go into details regarding this but I felt uneasy and uncomfortable working with bureaucratic management staff. That's why I run away! I think apart from money, people should work for joy, which is a critical element of our live.

Am I crazy when quiting such a prestigious uni??? :-/

[Charlie_051181]

Originally posted by lazycat@Jun 10 2003, 04:44 PM

I myself was a teacher of English at Foreign Trade Uni and I decided to quit the job because I want both to work to live and to live to work. You may think I'm a bit confused and complicated but after reading this, you may understand me. I have to live on my own in the capital of Hanoi, an expensive place in comparison with our hometown. With a monthly salary of VND600, I could have only fed my self, leaving my brother and sister to be starved :
To Lazycat : You are totally fair to say that . I myself understand how important of " live to work or work to live " matter . I gruarantee that if being told from what their souls are thinking , no one wants to say " I live to work " though himself clearly know that labor is glorious and noble . Think of your real life , what you are having and what you have to to , then answer why you have to do that , the question will be solved . it is said " Teaching is the greatest and noblest enterprise of human being " unfortunately the Superime Being bestows them such low income , it is very that the reason leads hundreds on teachers to quit their jobs , and so many talent people avoid being teaching . Now , let me show you the reality . Do you know why so many boys after fishing High Schools just want to enroll into Economic or Technical University , partly because it helps them be flexible but the main reason is that they don't want to get modest income which makes he shy and looking at what his wife has . In reality , he really wants to be stable , comfortable and healthy but how can he bring up his family with that . Then from the thinking that " I just want to work to live will force him to think to live to work "
Right , you now may ask me " So many male teachers are now very good at taking care of their family , if so do they think as you have said " . No , they do not , even they feel satisfactory with what they are having . The ones I refer here are commonly pretty ambitious , and talented .

[stupid]

Hi everybody :) ,

My name is Stupid. I accidentally became a member of this forum couple days ago :D . I own you an apology . When I signed up as a member, I didn't think that it would have some good topics like this :"> I apologized . Anyway, i want to be part of this topic :) Hopefully, you don't mind if I join :)

Back to the question, "to work to live or to live to work?", personally I think we need both. We need to have the balance between living and working . We don't want to work without enjoying life. We will miss so many things if we think only about working and making money. Thêrefore, it is so important to choose a career that satisfied your needs and still makes you feel happy and comfortable as well.

"Am I crazy when quiting such a prestigious uni???"
To lazycat: I feel you and I understand your situation. I respect your decision, I don't thịnk you are crazy, not at all :) . Personally, I don't want to work in an environment that i don't like. It's just too stressful and uncomfortable.

However, there is a point that I want to make in here. It is very important to have the ability to work in diffêrent environments :) It will take time to build up this skill, but it worths.

[stupid]

"Everyone has slightly equal opportunities but only some are able to seize them. That is why I believe really little in luck. If you are not prepared yourself well enough, there is high possibility that you would miss your chances when they come or you even harldy realise that they have gone by. "

To Kitty: I really appreciate that u brought this point. It is absolutely true. U have to be well-prepared, so that when opportunities come, u can seize them. Don't let the ỏpportunites pâss by you. When you are well-prepare, I firmly believe that u can see opportunities better and clearlier.

Reading your topic, again, bring to me another thought. We should cover ourselves strengths and weaknesses as well. By knowing our weaknesses, we know what we need to work on and improve our weaknesses.

I have to go now. I will get back with you later. I would like to cuss with you more about this.

Once again, nice meeting you !

Stupid

PS: help me improve my English also. Thanks a lot!

[kitty]

To Stupid (I wonder why you choose such a modest nickname): Thank you for joining our forum and this topic in particular. I hope that we can learn from each other by sharing our thoughts and approaches to our lives and work.

It is a good idea to incorporate our self-assessment reviews on weaknesses and strengths as a model for improvement. It sounds similar to the 'SWOT analysis' (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats) which is widely used for the business environment.

Now, let us hear from yourself concerning these and I will get back to you shortly, I promise, in spite of the fact that I am stuck in my quarter end work and other business as well as personal stresses.

Enjoy your weekend and I await your response.

[lazycat]

Originally posted by stupid@Jul 10 2003, 12:10 PM
I respect your decision, I don't thịnk you are crazy, not at all :) . Personally, I don't want to work in an environment that i don't like. It's just too stressful and uncomfortable.


Hi Stupid, well, you picked a nick that reflects the reverse ;) Anyway, thanks for your encouragement!

"However, there is a point that I want to make in here. It is very important to have the ability to work in diffêrent environments :) It will take time to build up this skill, but it worths."

True as it is, being able to work in different environments is worthy, at least for me! :)

[stupid]

Hi everybody,

I'm back again! It's good to hear from you, my friends.

You are wondering to know why did I choose that nick name, aren't you ? I have several reasons for choosing it. First of all, that nickname reminds me of my mistakes. In my life, I've made many mistakes :( . If I were smarter, I wouldn't make those mistakes :( Anyway, those mistakes have been made already. Therefore, I have to look back, learn somethings from them, and move on :)

Second of all, a word "stupid" has many meanings to me :) As a human being, I'm not perfect and never be perfect. In many fields, I'm so "stupid" because I have no knowledge at all :(

The third reason is a word 'stupid' brings to me a motivation. Nobody wants to be called "stupid", including me. Therefore it works like a motivation, doesn't it? :D

And finally, it is funny and it is unique, isn't it ? so now I'm unique :P :P Just kidding, my friends :D

[stupid]

Originally posted by kitty@Jul 11 2003, 04:58 PM
It is a good idea to incorporate our self-assessment reviews on weaknesses and strengths as a model for improvement. It sounds similar to the 'SWOT analysis' (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats) which is widely used for the business environment.

You are so right, Kitty. I'm a business student. Thats why I applies this technic in here. I think SWOT is very important. But, it is not easy as we think, especially when it comes down to personal issues. Knowing your weaknesses is not easy. You have to accept the facts that you don't want to. But, if you ignore your weaknesses, these weaknesses will build up stronger and one day, they will come back and hit you hard .

Not longtime ago, I had an assignment in one of my classes, "List your strengths and your weaknesses!", I had a hard time with it :( But, when it was over, I had learnt somethings from myself, from my classmates, and my professor as well. :D )

Back to the main topic, my thought is that working and enjoying life at the same time. If you work all the time, you might make a lot of money, but you will miss many interesting things as well. By the way, having a lot money doesn't mean you are happy. Many people have regretted for working too hard and ignoring many other things. I think we need to manage our time well. Time for working and time for playing need to be in balance !

By the way, thanks a lot, kitty. I had a great weekend ! I hope you will handle your job well and don't let stresses kill you :)>-

[stupid]

Why don't we cuss about career preparation??

What type of career is right for you? What steps you need to take and what skills you need to have in order to succeed in your field? or something like that ?

I will get back soon. I also have many things to do this week :D

Have a good week. Best wishes to you all. :rolleyes:

[kitty]

I am so sorry that I could not respond any earlier, as promised. There are too many things for me to sort out before I can actually sit down and write something properly. I just can't cuss these issues without careful consideration. If you guys know that it is 21.25 now and I haven't eaten anything from 10am, you would understand what sort of situation I am currently in.

To get rid of or at least, improve your weaknesses, you must be honest to yourself. Facing the truth is hard, especially when it is bitter but you have no alternatives in trying to improve yourself.

Personally, I am very sensitive and I never can take things easy. It is good as I can sense things easily and prepare for the worst cases before they happen but generally, it does harm me a lot. In the business environment, you have to be relaxing, so showing others that you are naturally confident. Also, people are absolutely right to say that it is most difficult to win yourself. There are so many temptations out there and it is not easy at all to get away from them, particularly to someone who has so much to love in this world like myself. In such a situation, we should imagine what is likely to happen if we fail to resist those temptations. Once we are able to quantify the effects, we will know what to do to avoid them.

I am afraid I need to continue this sometimes later to prepare for my dinner before it would become a supper. However, I do hope to hear from all of you in between.